Wednesday, March 9, 2011

Article 3 (Heaven and Hell)

My older daughter was "dedicated" to Christ and his Church at Mars Hill Bible Church in Grand Rapids, MI. While living in Michigan, Mars Hill was the community we called home, and Rob Bell was/is the teaching pastor there. He is releasing a book at the end of this month entitled, "A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived. Love Wins." Maybe the title needs some work. To view a video intro to the book featuring Bell, go to: https://www.robbell.com/lovewins/. This book, for obvious reasons after you see the video, has caused quite a stir in many evangelical circles and beyond even though no one has read it yet.

The issue of eternal destinations has weighed heavily on me for as long as I can remember. C.S. Lewis, Lesslie Newbigin, N.T. Wright, and the Catholic Catechism have helped shape my thinking significantly. But the following questions still find their way into my thoughts now and then: How are warnings of individuals going to hell related in the biblical narrative to grand promises of a cosmic, universal renewal of all things? What is to happen to the creation that God called "very good" if both possible eternal destinations are believed to be fully outside of that creation? Why does the biblical narrative place such strong emphasis on seeking justice and righteousness in this world if eternal hell in the next life awaits most of the people we are meant to seek justice for? Doesn't it seem that many people don't believe the message of Jesus because of the Church's failures to communicate it accurately and to embody its norms adequately and as a result haven't many people simply never heard the actual message of Jesus nor seen the outward signs of a community animated by that message? Does it matter that most people have never heard (or seen) the actual message of Jesus adequately proposed? Is there no difference between a failure to recognize Jesus Christ as the one in whom salvation is offered and a conscious turn away from God toward evil? Don't certain versions of the gospel devolve into sales pitches for people to respond to Jesus' forgiveness out of blatant self-interest rather than love? I'm not saying that all of these questions are fair or that the assumptions behind them are all legitimate, but they have all entered my mind at one time or another. In anticipation of Bell's book and the onset of the Lenten season, I took a quick look around for some orthodox sources that do justice to a Christian understanding of heaven and hell. The following article is one such source.


First Things “Will All Be Saved?” (August/September 2001)
By Richard John Neuhaus

The question of universalism—whether all will, in the end, be saved—is perennially agitated in the Christian tradition. A notable proponent of that view was the great Origen, who, in the third century, set forth a theologically and philosophically complex doctrine of “Apocatastasis” according to which all creatures, including the devil, will be saved. “Origenism”—which is not necessarily the same thing as Origen taught—has been condemned from time to time, with the Emperor Justinian trying, unsuccessfully, to get a total condemnation at the Second Council of Constantinople in 553. Among theologians and church historians, there has been something of a rediscovery and reappreciation of Origen in recent decades, helped along in significant part by the voluminous writings of Hans Urs von Balthasar. The universalism question came in for broader discussion with the publication of Balthasar's little book Dare We Hope “That All Men Be Saved”? (1988). Balthasar's is a very careful argument, clearly distinguishing between universal salvation as a hope and universal salvation as a doctrine. He supports the former and rejects the latter. In sum: we do not know; only God knows; but we may hope.

While my book Death on a Friday Afternoon, published last year, is intended not as an exercise in systematic theology but as a poetic-devotional reflection on the seven last words from the cross, I do indicate there my essential agreement with Balthasar's position. I confess to being caught off guard by the vehemence of some criticisms on that score, and not only from putative defenders of orthodoxy who have personal axes to grind. Let me not exaggerate the problem: the book has been marvelously well received, for which I am grateful, and many people have expressed their disagreement with the published criticisms, for which I am also grateful. Nonetheless, when some people whose judgment you generally respect have misunderstood what you wrote, a clarifying word may be in order. Of course, I also hope that people will go back and read what I actually wrote in Death on a Friday Afternoon.

The hope that all will be saved is precisely that, a hope. It is not a doctrine, never mind a dogma. But some respond that we cannot even hold the hope, since it clearly contradicts the revealed truth that many, if not most, will be eternally damned. A different and much more troubling objection is that it makes no sense to be a Christian if, in fact, one can be saved without being a Christian. In this view, the damnation of others, maybe of most others, is essentially related to the reason for being a Christian. The joy of our salvation is contingent upon the misery of their damnation. If it is possible that all will be saved, it is asked, why not eat, drink, and be merry?

One critic goes so far as to write about all the wrong things that he would really like to do, that he would prefer to do over what he is doing, and that he would do, were it not for the fear of eternity in hell. It follows, he contends, that, without the damnation of many, perhaps of most, there is no point in being a Christian. This, I suggest, is profoundly wrongheaded and spiritually perverse. For one thing, one cannot rationally and knowingly choose to live contrary to God's will, since to do so is contrary to one's own nature, which nature is to live in accord with God's will. One avoids sin because to sin is to act against God and against oneself, not because, or not chiefly because, of the threat of future punishment. More precisely, punishment, understood as damnation, is the culmination of having lived against one's highest good, namely, God. It is doubtful that one could really want life with God forever if one does not want life with God here and now.

The Generosity of God



Such a perverse view is also more than a little like that of the laborers in the vineyard who complained that those who came at the last hour received the same reward as those who had worked all day. The master replies, “Take what belongs to you and go; I choose to give to this last as I give to you. Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity? So the last will be first, and the first last” (Matthew 20). Some of the critics of the hope for universal salvation do indeed seem to begrudge the generosity of God entailed in that outcome. Theirs is a position of resentment dressed up as a claim of justice. “What was the point of my working so hard and so long if God is going to let in the riffraff on equal terms? It's unfair!” The eschatological upsetting of such attitudes (the last will be first and first last) is a constant in the teaching of Jesus.

Others, however, raise questions that should be taken very seriously. It would be absolutely wonderful, they say, if all were to be saved, but the Bible is very clear that that is not the case. There is no denying the powerful presence of passages suggesting a destiny of separation from God (e.g., Matthew 7:13ff., 25:31-46; Mark 9:45-48; Luke 16:23; John 3:36.) As there is also no denying the New Testament passages suggesting the redemption of the entire cosmos (e.g., Colossians 1:19-20; 1 Corinthians 15:22,28; Romans 5:18, 11:33-36; Philippians 2:10-11). If one gives priority to the latter passages, then the former may be understood as admonitory and cautionary, solemn warnings of a terrible possibility. If one gives priority to the former passages, it is not clear how we are to understand the latter. The passages cited in support of universal redemption can and often have been interpreted in other ways, as have the passages cited in support of the damnation of some or many. The Church in her wisdom has not definitively settled these exegetical disputes.

It is objected that Matthew 25, for instance, is “predictive.” The outcome is certain: “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Yes, certainly, people who live that way until the very end will go to hell. But what if, having lived that way, they at the very end repent? Recall the thief on the cross. The Catechism of the Catholic Church reads: “God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want ‘any to perish, but all to come to repentance'“ (1037). How can we know that anyone persists in mortal sin until the end? We cannot. Must we not hope that, according to God's desire (2 Peter 3:9), all will repent? If not, how can we pray that that is the case? Is it possible to pray for an outcome without hoping for it? Is it possible to pray and hope for something that you know cannot be?

In Death on a Friday Afternoon, I write: “From the cross Christ has already counted them all. And he assures us that none of them will be lost. He also sends out those whom we call missionaries to let them know they have been found.” The second sentence is susceptible of misunderstanding, and some have done their best to misunderstand it. The point of the sentence is not that everyone will be saved. The point, repeatedly underscored elsewhere in the book, is that absolutely no one is beyond the reach of God's love in Christ. All are found, and therefore are not lost. That some may choose not to accept the gift of being found is quite another matter. We pray and hope that all will accept the gift of salvation that is most surely available to all. At least for Catholics, the teaching is definitive: God denies no one the grace necessary for salvation.

A Sordid Reality



Make no mistake: Hell is real. Eternal separation from God is a distinct possibility to be feared, and to be feared first of all for ourselves. The passages of warning are to be taken with utmost, indeed ultimate, seriousness. God only knows who, if any, are damned. Our unqualified prayer is that God's will be done. Do I know beyond a possibility of doubt that I will not be damned? Of course not. To answer otherwise is the sin of presumption. I believe, I have a confident faith, that I will be saved because of the mercy of God in Christ. It is sometimes said that Protestants, who subscribe to “justification by faith,” know they will be saved, while Catholics only hope they will be saved. That is a distinction without a difference. Faith is hope anticipated, and hope is faith disposed toward the future.

“Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” That is the prayer that is absolutely without qualification. Only God knows God's will completely, and it is enough that God knows. In the splendid notes to the new translation of Dante's Inferno by Robert and Jean Hollander (Doubleday) we are told:

Beatrice's insistence [in Canto II] that she is not “touchable” by the grim powers of the pains of hell underlines the marginality of sin for the saved. Hell is simply not of concern to them. It is important to know, as one begins reading the poem, what one can only know once one has finished it: no soul in purgation or in grace in heaven has a thought for the condition of the damned (only the damned themselves do). Their concern for those who do not share their redeeming penitence or bliss is reserved for those still alive on earth, who have at least the hope of salvation. Hell, for the saved, is a sordid reality of which it is better not to speak.

We know that some are saved. At least Catholics know, on the basis of infallible teaching, that Mary, the mother of the Lord, is saved. And, although theologians are not of one mind on this, it is commonly accepted that those who are formally canonized are definitively declared to be in heaven. With respect to all the faithful departed, we are invited to have a generous expectation, “that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope” (1 Thessalonians 4:13). Moreover, there is plenty of room for the saved in the New Jerusalem, which we are told is approximately fifteen hundred miles in height, breadth, and length (Revelation 21:16). That's a city of a size that would cover more than half the continental U.S., and it will be more than a thousand miles high. It would seem there is ample space for everybody to be saved. (Where people who don't like cities will go, I don't know.) The details may not be meant literally, of course, but the picture of a well-populated heaven can, I think, be trusted.

How About Judas?



By way of contrast, we do not know who, if any one, is in hell. As John Paul II points out in his remarkable little book Crossing the Threshold of Hope, the Church has never taught that even Judas Iscariot is damned. A critic writes me that he will not be satisfied until I publicly declare my certain belief in a “populated hell.” I am afraid that he will have to remain dissatisfied. How on earth (emphasizing on earth) can I know for sure that hell is populated? One day we will know even as we are known (1 Corinthians 13), and presumably the saints in glory know now (although, as Dante suggests, they're not much interested), but we—here on earth and now—simply do not know.

There is that enigmatic statement of Jesus about Judas, “It would have been better for that man if he had not been born” (Matthew 26:24, Mark 14:21). He does not explicitly say that Judas is in hell but, on the other hand, it would seem that he cannot be in heaven. Were he in heaven—or in purgatory on his way to heaven—how could one say that it would have been better for him if he had not been born? Some theologians have speculated about another possibility. Since evil does not have independent ontological status but is the absence of good, perhaps the fate of Judas is that of total annihilation. Such a fate, joined to his terrible betrayal, would seem to warrant saying of him that it would have been better had he not been born. In any event, as John Paul II notes, the Church does not teach that even Judas is in hell. That does not mean he is not in hell; only that we cannot teach what we do not know.

The Demands of Justice



Here enters another consideration that is commonly expressed: our sense of justice requires that we believe some people are eternally punished. It seems the favorite candidate here is Adolf Hitler. As one critic writes, “If Hitler is not in hell, there is little reason why I, with my much lesser sins, should be in fear of going there.” There are all kinds of things wrong with that argument. Hitler may have repented, turning to the mercy of God, even as his finger pressed the trigger. Plus, rating “big” and “little” sinners is a very dubious business. I expect there are many petty tyrants in homes and offices who are every bit as disposed to evil as was Hitler, but who have a more restricted range of opportunity for acting on that disposition. Moreover, consider the Apostle who writes, “I am the chief of sinners” (1 Timothy 1:16), and so should we all say of ourselves, since, when it comes to sinners, we know chiefly about ourselves. Further, it is not our sense of justice but God's perfect justice that is to be satisfied. And, be it noted, that perfect justice is satisfied by the perfect sacrifice of Christ on the cross.

Then, too, there is the matter of purgatory. Not only Catholics, but thinkers such as C. S. Lewis and the contemporary Methodist theologian Jerry Walls suggest it is only fitting that there be an experience, and perhaps a long and painful experience, of purgation before we are ready for the beatific vision. The master's reproach to the disgruntled laborers in the vineyard (“Do you begrudge my generosity?”) notwithstanding, there is something that seems not right about the idea that Hitler or Chairman Mao or (enter your favorite villain here) should get to heaven without paying a steep price for their crimes here on earth. Are they finally to be treated the same as, say, Mother Teresa? That too seems not right. So maybe they have thousands of years (as we reckon time) in purgatory. And maybe, as one friend whimsically suggests, Hitler in heaven will be forever a little dog to whom we will benignly condescend. But he will be grateful for being there, and for not having received what he deserved. (As will we all be grateful for being there and not receiving what we deserve.) But with such thoughts we are in a realm of speculation and whimsy far beyond things on which we have a certain word from God, and far beyond our capacity to understand.

Why Evangelize?



So may we hope that all will be saved? Answering that question in the affirmative, some contend, undercuts the rationale of Christian evangelization. I respond to that objection in Death on a Friday Afternoon and in an extended commentary on John Paul's encyclical Redemptoris Missio (The Mission of the Redeemer) (FT, October 1991). I will not expand on that response here, but the gist of the argument is that the command and impulse to evangelize is premised not on the bad news that we do not know but on the good news (i.e., “gospel”) that we do know. To be sure, good news may be good in relation to the bad, but there is enough bad news that we know for sure that we do not need to pretend to know more bad news than we do in order to make the good news good. We know about God's saving work in Christ, and that “there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12). As both Redemptoris Missio and the year 2000 statement of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Dominus Iesus, make clear, everyone who is saved is saved because of Christ, even if they have never heard the gospel. If they are in heaven, they will certainly know then that it is because of God's reconciling work in Christ. As it is usually put, faith's response to the gospel proclaimed and enacted in word and sacrament is the “ordinary means” of salvation. That is exactly right. At the same time, God is not limited to the ordinary. Why evangelize? Evangelization is most importantly driven by the means of salvation revealed, by Christ's clear command, and by the sharing of fellowship so that “our joy may be complete” (1 John 1:4). We know what we are to do, and why. But the fullness of what God can and will do for the world that He loves is not limited to what we do.

We may come at our question in a different way by trying this thought experiment: Do you know anyone of whom you would not say that you hope he or she is saved? Imagine that you could know everyone who now lives, who has ever lived, or will ever live in the future. Of whom could you say that you hope they are eternally damned? Perhaps in a fit of anger—or in an act of presumption in which you identified your moral indignation with God's perfect justice—you have said that you hope somebody is eternally damned, but you know you were wrong in saying or thinking that. “Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.” Is it possible to forgive someone and, at the same time, hope he goes to hell? I think not. After you have, in this thought experiment, said to absolutely everybody, “I hope you will be saved,” have you not declared your hope that all will be saved?

Quite apart from such a thought experiment, the fact is that we all pray that all may be saved. Is it possible to pray for that without hoping for that? I think not. It follows that we pray, and therefore we hope, that all will be saved. Catholics by the millions pray the rosary every day, adding at the end of each decade, O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, lead all souls to heaven, especially those most in need of thy mercy.



We pray and we hope, but we do not know that that will be the case. I have a terrible fear that it will not be the case. If all are not saved, if many or most are lost, I do not know-despite the many elegant explanations that have been proposed-how to square that with biblical passages and the theo-logic that suggest universal redemption. But God knows, and that is enough. We know that we are to proclaim the saving gospel, we know what we hope will be the case, but we know these things in the full recognition that the ultimate working out of God's mercy and justice eludes our certain grasp.

How to Disagree



Nevertheless, I expect that I may not have convinced everyone that we can and should hope that all will be saved. In that event, I hope we can disagree without quarreling, remembering Chesterton's observation that the problem with a quarrel is that it spoils an argument. And, as in all such disagreements, we do well to keep in mind the rule of Richard Baxter (famously reiterated by John XXIII), “In necessary things, unity; in doubtful things, liberty; in all things, charity.”

To which one need only add this necessary thing: all our puzzling, disputing, and speculating must finally give way to the most pure act of faith, which is doxology. So it was with St. Paul in his perplexity at the end of Romans 11, and so it must be with us. At the end of all our trying to understand, we join in declaring:

For God has consigned all to disobedience, that He may have mercy upon all. O the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and how inscrutable His ways! “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been His counselor?” “Or who has given a gift to Him that he might be repaid?” For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be glory forever. Amen.

24 comments:

  1. I join Hans Urs von Balthasar and Fr. Richard Neuhaus in declaring my hope "that all men be saved" even though I believe an indescribably painful separation from God is possible. On the the so-called "grave bottom line of Christianity," I assert that we should pay close attention to how Jesus responds when confronted with the question, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

    For example, take a look at Luke 10:

    25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

    26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

    27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[c]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”

    28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

    29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

    30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[e] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

    36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

    37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

    Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

    Jesus has the opportunity to offer some version of justification by faith to communicate to the questioner how he can avoid hell by believing in Christ's ability to forgive sins and his eventual atoning work on the cross, but he does not. Instead Jesus asks the man what is written in the Law. The man answers correctly. Jesus replies, "Do this and you will live." It is worth noting that Jesus drops the word "eternal" in his reply to the man's inquiry about inheriting eternal life, but that is another discussion. It will suffice for now to highlight the fact that Jesus' response to a question about inheriting eternal life focused intently on entering life more fully in this world by keeping the law in the present. The culmination of this exchange is found in the passage on the good Samaritan where Jesus tells a radical story of mercy and compassion of the kind that provides a foretaste of the age to come. Why do many Christians, evangelicals in particular, desire so strongly to answer the question, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" one way while Jesus answers it in quite another? Did Jesus miss an opportunity here to be completely clear on this? Or do some of our categories simply fall short of capturing what Jesus taught?

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  2. The following paragraph from the article addresses some of the biblical selection bias that can occur in a discussion about heaven and hell. People often find what they are looking for in the Bible, which is why we need a robust sense of ecclesiology. We need to read Sacred Scripture with the Church rather than solo. This list of verses/passages below is by no means exhaustive, but it is illustrative of the unresolved tension the biblical narrative leaves us with, a tension that we can see played out in Church history. But I believe the tension leans us one way more than the other.

    Fr. Neuhaus writes:
    There is no denying the powerful presence of passages suggesting a destiny of separation from God (e.g., Matthew 7:13ff., 25:31-46; Mark 9:45-48; Luke 16:23; John 3:36.) As there is also no denying the New Testament passages suggesting the redemption of the entire cosmos (e.g., Colossians 1:19-20; 1 Corinthians 15:22,28; Romans 5:18, 11:33-36; Philippians 2:10-11). If one gives priority to the latter passages, then the former may be understood as admonitory and cautionary, solemn warnings of a terrible possibility. If one gives priority to the former passages, it is not clear how we are to understand the latter. The passages cited in support of universal redemption can and often have been interpreted in other ways, as have the passages cited in support of the damnation of some or many. The Church in her wisdom has not definitively settled these exegetical disputes.
    It is worth noting and rereading these biblical passages and to accept the ways they challenge us. The way we view heaven and hell will likely influence the emphasis we place on some of these verses relative to the others. I especially want to point out where Neuhaus writes, “If one gives priority to the former passages, it is not clear how we are to understand the latter.” This is a critical point to consider. That the Catholic Church (and many other Christian communities) has not definitively settled these exegetical disputes is also worth reflecting on.
    I really wanted to keep this brief, which I have already failed to do. So I’ll just reference a few other issues that I don’t want to leave completely unmentioned. 1) I would critique what I perceive to be the prevailing view of the meaning of salvation as extremely inadequate from a Christian perspective 2) I would critique the assumption that “becoming saved” or “going to heaven when we die” is the definitive, central theme of the gospel toward which everything in Christianity points 3) I would critique the idea that the purpose of life at its most fundamental level (essentially that the purpose of the whole of creation which God deemed “very good”) is to get as many people as possible to the point where if they died in any particular moment, they’d go to heaven and not hell.

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  3. I don’t know of any Christian who hasn’t seriously wrestled with this question. In fact, in my own spiritual journey this question raised its ugly head in such a way as to almost turn me away from what I believed and accepted about God. The whole “how could a loving God condemn people to eternal hell” debate – I think Lee Strobel deals with this in his “Case for….” series, the point here being that it is clearly one of the most significant reasons people choose not to believe. Of course I’ve read several books on the subject, but sitting here in Nigeria without my library handy I can’t pull any material out to help here. However, my initial reaction (again having wrestled mightily with this in the past) is that Hell is in fact a real place and is a place that will be “inhabited” - as the author himself uses.

    A couple of things – and forgive me as I am not quite as articulate (this is more thinking out loud).

    What is the significance in Scripture of placing critical importance on the exclusivity of Christ as the “only way” – we come across this in the whole pluralistic theology conversation. I guess one could argue that in the end if “all are in fact saved” it must be made clear that it is through Christ (I believe the author makes this point). However, I guess that does not satisfy me the way it ought? There must be more to why Scripture emphasizes this truth (not simply an “oh FYI to all of you in heaven now, it was because of Jesus” – a bit sacrilege in my view). In this conversation we should really reflect on this question – why does God place such significance on the uniqueness of Christ and how does that play in to the question of heaven and hell.

    The example he gives re Hitler – I am not sure I agree theologically with him there. I can imagine Hitler asking forgiveness – but the hypocrisy of that request is in my view clearly evident in his choosing to take his own life (even if almost simultaneously – you cannot ask forgiveness once the trigger has been pulled…the choice again comes after asking for forgiveness). This is an authority issue – and the essence in my view of the Christian life is centered on that reality…that is, who has authority in your life…You…or God – in Hitler’s case though he may have “asked forgiveness” he ultimately chose self as supreme authority in that moment. Not sure Hitler is in heaven, not because I think he is so awful he deserves to be in hell (though the author himself makes that case), but because theologically as I understand it (and because I believe in hell)…the answer is he chose hell over God.

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  4. That brings me to yet another significant point – the role of choice. Our choice in this whole narrative is a fundamental theological reality. It is THE story of the Bible…from Genesis on. The understanding I have here is not that God does not love all and desire that all be saved (and as a Christian that should be are desire as well)…that is not the problem – that has in fact never been the problem – God is love and as the author quotes from scripture He desires that ALL be saved. When he uses the example of the criminal on the cross next to Christ…the story we all know and love is that because of Christ’s love, this man…even in his dying breath…chose, believed, accepted….embraced the love of God extended to him in that moment – and Christ’s response? “Today you will be with me in paradise.” The other man on the cross heard those same words and chose an alternate reality, even while hanging there with no other choice available but to die – and he chose death. Christ’s offer of salvation is to all who believe, it is a gift yes, but as we often explain (and the author here does so) it must be accepted. So my view and understanding of hell (as clearly limited as it is) is that God does not “throw anyone into hell” – hell is our choice. That was the issue at the beginning of creation – God did not create humanity to love and adore him because they had to or were forced to – He created out of love and for relationship, that we would love him of our own volition.

    Finally to the question of whether we should hope for all to be saved? I think the article is about something else, this question to me does not really fit in to the context of the conversation. Of course we should hope for all to be saved – and that does not come from our own understanding or our own righteousness, that is blasphemy. We hope that all should be saved because that is what Christ hopes for and calls us to – that is the great commission…the essence of the Christian life.

    Going back to the choice issue as I close…if we all are saved, we had no choice to begin with, right? If that is the case why would God not have created a perfect world WITHOUT the possibility of sin and therefore choice so that we could all be saved from the very beginning? To me that portrayal of God is much more horrifying – that he allowed sin for the purpose of destruction, hurt, suffering and pain, knowing that all would be saved regardless? – for what purpose – especially in the light of eternity?

    Just my thoughts.

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  5. Oh and the Judas proposition he uses of “annihilation” does not correlate in my mind with Christ’s statement – “it would have been better for that man if he had never been born” – ultimately annihilating him is just that, is it not – it’s as though he never had been born – so how does that statement have any meaning? The reality of hell is worse than annihilation. As we know, in the end all will come to a full knowledge of God – and what hell in my estimation is is not so much about fire and brimstone as about knowing fully who God is, God revealing himself in all his holiness and glory and love and with that knowledge then being eternally separated from Him.

    *please also note that the conversation above is related particularly to those who have in some way come into contact with the Gospel/Truth…my understanding or theological framework re those who pass away without having encountered Christ in some way is not quite as clear– all kinds of books on that as well.

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  6. Kenyon wrote:

    I’d like to chime in on this discussion as it’s one close to my heart. I want to comment on one of Lauren’s points and then ask a few questions. Lauren said:

    “What is the significance in Scripture of placing critical importance on the exclusivity of Christ as the “only way” – we come across this in the whole pluralistic theology conversation. I guess one could argue that in the end if “all are in fact saved” it must be made clear that it is through Christ (I believe the author makes this point). However, I guess that does not satisfy me the way it ought? There must be more to why Scripture emphasizes this truth (not simply an “oh FYI to all of you in heaven now, it was because of Jesus” – a bit sacrilege in my view).”

    In his book Velvet Elvis, Rob Bell comments on Jesus’ claim “I am the way, the truth, the life, no man comes to the father except through me.” Bell basically says that he affirms this passage as true and he believes it and goes on to say that he affirms Truth where ever he sees it. I believe he illustrates his point with an example of the way Muslims view debt. From what I understand, it’s generally not part of their culture and it’s avoided. Bell says there is something true about that and asks how much better we, as Christians, would be if we weren’t so debt ridden. Where I think many Christians have written philosophies, ideas, and culture norms off if they aren’t generally recognized as originating from the bible or our Christian traditions, Bell has found things (which I think most of us could agree that are fundamentally true even if they aren’t traditionally embraced by Christians) and claimed that Jesus is there, because after all he IS truth.

    So when considering the philosophies of other religions, I think we as Christians can only say they are as wrong as far as they directly contradict Christianity. Certainly, Christianity shares many common themes with other religious views. If these common themes are True, then perhaps Jesus is there and has been all along. In this view, it’s easier for me to see a meeting point with Jesus’ exclusive claims and his inclusive-sounding comments.

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  7. Kenyon wrote:

    I’m certain there are several people in this discussion much more familiar with bible than me, so let me throw two questions:

    First, why is it generally assumed that our ultimate destination is decided (whether by us or God or a combination of the two) BEFORE we stop breathing? The idea of “meeting our maker” makes sense to me. I’m not necessarily proposing a scenario in which a person who has continually rejected God, truth, and life over and over throughout their life, dies, encounters God, and simply chooses God because they are afraid of hell. I think it is problematic for several reasons, one of which is that it seems unlikely that a person who has adamantly and intentionally rejected God throughout their lifetime would find Hell scary. It would be a logical continuation of the choices they began making a long time ago. What I am proposing is the hypothetical scenario in which a person who’s position for or against God is less clear (to others, not God). Perhaps they have never been exposed to the Gospel. Have they missed the boat if they haven’t made their decision by the time they die or does God allow them to choose to embrace or reject Him after they die? The deadline of our physical life on earth seems so arbitrary to me. Now I can understand an argument that suggests that people who have rejected God their whole lives will not embrace him after their death, but this doesn’t totally satisfy me.

    Second, what is the evidence in scripture to support the idea that we do not have the choice to turn away from evil (hell) and embrace truth (heaven), even if we had already made the decision for evil?

    I like to use an analogy of a big party when thinking about heaven. Jesus is the often portrayed as the guest of honor and God the bouncer at the front door checking his list to see if your name is on it. The bottom line is, of course, that it sucks to be you if your name isn’t on the list. In my view, Jesus is still the guest of honor, but God is the one throwing the party and he is an inviting host. The door is open for those who want to participate. Of course there will be some who never come in, and they aren’t forced against their will, but the invitation is always there.

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  8. Lauren,
     
    Thank you for taking time to respond while in Nigeria; that means a lot to me. No need to worry about not having the necessary resources at your finger tips, your response was very thoughtful and articulate and it definitely deserves serious consideration. 

    Matt,

    I typed this response to Lauren early this morning but could not clean it up and post it until now. Thank you for adding to the discussion. We definitely had some parallel thinking as you will see. There is a particular matter you brought up that I want to respond to, but I can’t tonight.

    Nathan
     

    The Uniqueness of Christ
     
    Lauren, to your question, "why does God place such significance on the uniqueness of Christ and how does that play in to the question of heaven and hell?" I believe without equivocation that the fullest, truest, most real life possible is one lived in service to Christ and his kingdom and in communion with his Church. I believe that through him all things were made, in him all things hold together, and by him all things will be restored. I believe that he is the messiah Israel was looking for, the one who "extended" to the world the particular covenant God made with Israel. I believe he is the one who continues to work decisively within his church (and outside of it) to bring justice and mercy to the world. I believe he is the one who will return to judge all people and the structures we've created and that whatever ever he deems worthy in the entire history of the world will reside with him for eternity in a renewed creation. I believe that forgiveness of sin and a vision for what true repentance turns us toward only come from Christ. I believe that while he was a man in history, he was/is truly God. What I've said is more than enough justification for why the Bible and the Christian Tradition in general speak of the "significance of the uniqueness of Christ." But, as you ask, what about the significance of this uniqueness as it relates to heaven and hell?

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  9. The Mystery of Choosing of Hell
     
    You write: “As we know, in the end all will come to a full knowledge of God – and what hell in my estimation is not so much about fire and brimstone as about knowing fully who God is, God revealing himself in all his holiness and glory and love and with that knowledge then being eternally separated from Him.”
    I can affirm much of this statement, but I struggle with the end because there is still a great mystery here that is moved passed too easily. Earlier in your response you explained that the central issue is human choice, i.e. choosing hell over God. But in this statement, you are saying that in the end we will finally know God “in all his holiness and glory and love” but will have no choice to do anything about it. The source of the pain of hell (i.e. eternal separation from God) is that we see how utterly, profoundly, and indescribably good God is but can’t do anything about it. The question is, up to the point of death did some people really “know” what they were choosing hell over and against? The mystery I referred to above is, in what ways do we or do we not we become “eternalized” in the person we were when we died, thus making it impossible to choose differently when the time comes that we finally “know as we are known,” i.e. when we can finally see clearly Who we chose hell against. I realize that the “time of choosing” is generally understood to end with physical death. To speculate on why and how this could be and the extent to which it is utterly and absolutely true is, again, to speculate about a great mystery.
     
    Authentic Exposure to the Gospel
     
    But let’s turn back to the issue of choice before death since its a bit more tangible. In particular let’s look at choice in an American context. A church building can be found every few blocks in nearly every American city. Most Americans could patch together some limited but still identifiable statements about who Jesus is and what he taught. Yet I would argue that most Americans have never “heard” the gospel and will never “hear” the gospel in large part because, I would argue, the gospel cannot be captured in words alone (though words certainly tell part of it) but must also be embodied through corresponding acts of forgiveness, repentance, justice, mercy, and so on. Our words explain the acts and the acts give depth and definition to our words in an endless, mutually reinforcing pattern.

    If I were to have to capture the heart of the gospel in a verse, it would be Mark 1:15, “the Kingdom of God is at hand, repent and believe the good news.” If I were to tell my co-workers today, “God’s Kingdom is near (you know, the one Jesus taught about and embodied), turn away from your current destructive ways and believe the good news that God’s ways are available now,” would I have just preached the gospel? Maybe. Or, yes, but not fully. Anyway, my point is that even in America, most won’t ever hear the gospel to make the kind of “choice” we think of when we think of people choosing hell over God or choosing ways of death over life with God. According to what you wrote Lauren, the first time some people will make an informed decision is at precisely the point where they cannot make the choice to be with God.

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  10. Is Denying Christianity Equal to Choosing Hell?
     
    Now, I believe people make choices every day in every moment that either lead more toward life or more toward death, choices that either witness more to the age to come when all things are made new or witness more to the ways of destruction that will eventually be stripped away and lost. The question is, to what extent do these choices correspond with the categories of people choosing to be Christian or non-Christian?

    I also believe hell is real and that those inhabiting it, if there are any, must continuously choose to be separated from the love of God in order to “stay” there. The pain they experience is self-inflicted, and God’s continuous judgment of who they’ve become (i.e. the person they are unwilling to let go of) is experienced as indescribable pain and rightly perceived as wrath. C.S. Lewis taught that there are no 100% Christians and 100% non-Christians but rather there are people generally moving toward God and people generally moving away from him. Without getting into the half a dozen or so atonement theories that represent the ways Christians through the ages have tried to explain what happened on the Cross, I would simply claim that the most decisive first step on the path toward God is to confess that Jesus is Lord of all and that he gave his life that we might be reconciled to God. But many, even most, will never have the opportunity to make a decision to embrace or reject the truth of the gospel because they have never heard or seen or experienced the embodied gospel as described above.
     
    The Great Exception
     
    So, if we have to talk directly about heaven and hell (and at times we must), we have to account for all of the implications of the statements we make, such as, statements that go something like this, “Jesus is the way….no one comes to the Father but through him….therefore we can say all non-Christians face eternal hell.” At the end of your response you added an important exception, “the conversation above is related particularly to those who have in some way come into contact with the Gospel/Truth…my understanding or theological framework re those who pass away without having encountered Christ in some way is not quite as clear.” If we take the view that those who die without confessing the Lordship of Christ and asking his forgiveness for their sins will face eternal separation from God on the Last Day, and yet we maintain the exception you offered at the end, I would have to say that most people fall into the category of those who have not “encountered Christ in some way.” What are the implications of this statement? I come back to challenging the prevailing views of heaven and hell as well as the idea that Christianity is ultimately about getting people to heaven.

    Responding to Judgement

    I Corinthians 3:10-15 talks about how we will be judged on how well we have “built” lasting things that won’t be burned away by the “fire” on that Day when the totality of our lives in all their horror and splendor are laid bare before God. I believe those who already know, trust, and love the Judge will surrender themselves to the tremendous pain and shame (and freedom and joy) of this judgment. I also believe some may be unwilling to face the kind of person they’ve become and will therefore turn away from the “purging fire” required of all who will reside forever in the presence of Redemptive Love. I believe those people will have to ultimately and finally reject being human in order to forever resist God’s love because as long as a flicker of a person’s “image bearing” nature still exists, this nature disposes that person toward the Communion with God for which she/he was created.

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  11. Conclusion

    In all of this “choosing” we’ve talked about, how much does it correspond with choosing to accept or deny Christ? In the complexity of life, I believe some people choose to deny Christianity, communion with the Church, and Christ himself for reasons that have little to do with a sinful denial of truth and an embrace of evil. If a person is not persuaded of the truth of Christianity, is that the same as denying God and choosing eternal separation from him? Christians should continue to make an appeal to the world, in word and deed, as to the truth of the gospel. We must continue to preach that God loves the entire world he created, that all people are implicated in this world’s brokenness through our sin, and that God always has and always will to the end work to restore the “very good” world he created, and that God actively seeks to do this work with the participation of every person willing to join him.

    I don’t argue for the kind of cheap universalism that essentially boils down to the idea that, “if we all are saved, we had no choice to begin with….” I think you make a really good point here. But the gospel is about becoming a new creation in Christ, and for too many, their concept of what it is to “believe” the gospel is way too limited to initiate a new creation and therefore I think their concept of what it is “not to believe” is way too limited to be equated with choosing evil and hell. I think we must be given grace and receive and do and repent and accept and believe and do and repent and forgive and be given more grace and receive and forgive and accept and believe and do and on and on.......this is how we become who we are becoming. It just seems to bear little resemblance to momentary claims of belief and status.

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  12. Kenyon, thanks for your thoughts. Two of your comments came through in my email but it looks like only one showed on the blog (at least as far as I can tell). Anyway, would like to respond to the first post you made re one of my comments.

    I agree with you wholeheartedly that there are clear evidences of truth in other cultures and religions, and it is important that Christians recognize this. One of my closest colleagues, in fact one of my greatest mentors, is a Muslim from Senegal – his influence has been significant on me in large part due to the qualities he exhibits that I recognize as good, moral and right (i.e. qualities Christ embodied). So I understand exactly the point you are making. However, though truth may exist in part we must be careful not to accept it in whole. That is to say – using the Muslim example, there are good, moral and even "truth" teachings in the Quran, but the whole of the message is a perversion of the Truth - even if, as some would argue, ever so slightly. The New Testament is riddled with warnings of "false gospels" that the writer's of the NT exclaimed were not the true gospel of Jesus Christ. So the Word of God is emphatic on this issue - though we may find "truth" in other religions, it does not make the religion True and there is a significant distinction between the two – and it plays into this conversation about hell. It is something that must be carefully interpreted – and unfortunately, I believe, has played a significant role in the growing pluralistic religious philosophy today.

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  13. A second point re your statement:

    You say, “so when considering the philosophies of other religions, I think we as Christians can only say they are as wrong as far as they directly contradict Christianity. Certainly, Christianity shares many common themes with other religious views. If these common themes are True, then perhaps Jesus is there and has been all along. In this view, it’s easier for me to see a meeting point with Jesus’ exclusive claims and his inclusive-sounding comments.”

    You make an important point here – the reality that God is there and has been all along. When I read that it reminded me of the Arminian/Wesleyan understanding of “prevenient grace” (other churches express similar views though interpretations vary). The Church of the Nazarene (of which I am a part of) uses the language below to capture the essence of prevenient grace:

    “We believe that the human race’s creation in Godlikeness included ability to choose between right and wrong, and that thus human beings were made morally responsible; that through the fall of Adam they became depraved so that they cannot now turn and prepare themselves by their own natural strength and works to faith and calling upon God. But we also believe that the grace of God through Jesus Christ is freely bestowed upon all people, enabling all who will to turn from sin to righteousness, believe on Jesus Christ for pardon and cleansing from sin, and follow good works pleasing and acceptable in His sight.”

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  14. It is in essence the Imago Dei (image of God) in which the human race has been created that brings out or rather exudes the qualities in other philosophies and religions that you rightly point out share common Christian themes. In no way do these themes have their origin in man, however, or in those particular philosophies or religions; rather I think we would all argue they originate from and in humanity’s Godlikeness.

    Nathan, thanks for your feedback. A lot of stuff in your response so I won’t be able to hit it all, but still wanted to reply. God is perfect in love just as He is perfect in judgment – so regardless of what we know or do not know emphatically about hell, the reality is no innocent person will be in hell. That I know we can all agree on and ultimately is the bottom line. This realization was hugely significant in my coming to grips with the whole “how can a loving God “throw” people in hell” dilemma I struggled with early in my adult faith. And Nathan you make a significant point that it is willful unbelief, not ignorance, which condemns man for eternity.

    You later say, “I also believe hell is real and that those inhabiting it, if there are any, must continuously choose to be separated from the love of God in order to “stay” there.” Do you believe then (eternally speaking) that there is ultimately never a “point of no return” (sorry couldn’t think of a better way to say it)? As in even in hell man will be able to choose to believe and if so will then be joined with God in heaven? I guess I’ve never understood it this way and am interested in where that interpretation unfolds.

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  15. You ask, “If a person is not persuaded of the truth of Christianity, is that the same as denying God and choosing eternal separation from him?” This is a tough question. This is also a heart issue – ie the argument that you can’t really know someone’s heart, only God knows man’s heart. However, if we believe the Holy Spirit convicts man of the Truth then I am not sure how much the issue of persuasion really plays here. The Holy Spirit doesn’t “persuade” as much as the Holy Spirit testifies to the Truth. Please don’t misinterpret this either, I am again more thinking out loud here – so don’t take these thoughts as my definitive doctrine here  I realize the work of the Spirit in continual, never ceasing, but I also know that life is messy and that our stories are all different. But if we are created in the image of God (as discussed earlier) and we have the ability (innately) to choose between right and wrong then this complicates the question a little for me. God is clear about idols – “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”, including, and especially, ourselves. That is the story in the Garden of Eden – Satan tempts them with what…”you will be like God”. Anyway, I don’t know where else to go with this just further exploration.

    Having said that, I also have become increasingly concerned with the casual nature in which we approach sin and hell today. In fact I think there is a direct correlation between our casual response to sin and our increasingly trivialized view of hell (and by “our” I mean the church – there are several statistics/surveys out there indicating that many Christians do not even believe in hell). I have a lot of thoughts running around in my head about this – but it’s nearly 3:00 AM here in Nigeria and I have got to hit the hay. 

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  16. Matt Kenyon Wrote:

    Lauren,

    Thanks for participating in this discussion with me and thank you for your thoughts and repsonse. I have just one thing to add. I totally agree with your point that we can't blindly and wholeheartedly accept another world view or religious doctrine simply because we find truths in them; we can only accept those truths that we find.

    The point I want to add is this: Sometimes I wonder if it's a tad unfair to assume that we as Christians have got it right on all counts. In otherwords, there could very well be points that we have missed, mis-interpreted, ignored or otherwise just got wrong. This, of course, is not an allegation that Christ himself has fallen short, only us in our attemps to follow him, his way, and his teachings. Afterall, there are countless issues/belives/practices that even we Christians, in all our denominations, take very opposing views as to what is and is not right.

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  17. The Church doesn't have it all right?! - impossible!! :) j/k. No I agree, and it is a good reminder - thanks. And thanks too for the back and forth, I've appreciated your thoughts. You too Nathan.

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  18. Matt,

    A few posts back you wrote, "What I am proposing is the hypothetical scenario in which a person who’s position for or against God is less clear (to others, not God). Perhaps they have never been exposed to the Gospel. Have they missed the boat if they haven’t made their decision by the time they die or does God allow them to choose to embrace or reject Him after they die?"

    Many Christians would answer this line of thought by saying that our position without an affirmative stance "for" God is by default that we are "against" him because of sin. I think this statement has elements of truth in it but is often misused. And I like where you said that for a person who continually rejected God, truth, and life over and over their entire life "[hell] would be a logical continuation of the choices they began making a long time ago." In a sentence, you have essentially captured my view on how/why people may populate hell.

    I also wanted to comment on your statement, “Sometimes I wonder if it's a tad unfair to assume that we as Christians have got it right on all counts....Afterall, there are countless issues/belives/practices that even we Christians, in all our denominations, take very opposing views as to what is and is not right.” I definitely appreciate what you’re saying but do want to add that I believe there is a “mere Christianity” that most Christian traditions have endorsed through the ages. Many of the “opposing views” (certainly not all) you are referring to are differences in emphasis and not outright disagreement. Ultimately, I believe a stream of orthodoxy does exist. If we believe, as Christians, that we have it right on all counts, then we have strayed far from the humility toward which we’re called, however, the revelation on which Christianity is based is uniquely true in a way that the bases of other traditions are not, and we must be willing to affirm that as our most basic assumption.

    Lauren,

    I think you asked a few posts back if I was suggesting the possibility that people could turn to God after they die. Matt, you brought up the same issue.

    First, I need to say something about sin, which although I didn’t mean to, was not properly acknowledged in my earlier statements about the issue of choice. Mortal sin for Catholics or sin in general for other Christians is the act of choosing definitively against life with God, and I did not address this idea adequately before when I discussed people not knowing Who it is they are choosing against until it is too late. But I don’t think this undercuts my overall claim that there is still a major problem in many evangelical formulations of salvation (I pick on them because I still claim to be one). The way many Christians understand what it is to receive, and be received by, God despite ALL of us choosing “against” Him (all have sinned and fall short of God’s glory) is still incomplete and not in accordance with a more full accounting of the Scriptures.

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  19. Whether we’re talking about a conscious choice against life with God or an implied choice against Him through engagement in sustained, unconfessed sin, what of the absolute “foreverness” of that rebellion against God (i.e. life in hell)? Most Christian traditions claim that the time for someone to gain salvation is before death. The Catholic Catechism states, “Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ.” There may be a way to nuance your way around this based on other Catholic teachings (I’ve heard it done) or quibbling over whether “divine grace manifested in Christ” only refers to the particular grace associated with Jesus’ earthly mission and that another grace is also available, but in one way or another most Christians tend to think this way, and it comes from the word “eternal” as, for instance, in Matthew 25:41 about the separation of the sheep and goats. Jesus says, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire....” Well, if hell is “eternal” and people go to hell after they die, then how could any “exit” occur; hell is for eternity?

    Below I offer a response to the idea that choosing hell is a choice from which a person cannot deviate by questioning three claims: 1. that humans could ever be fully static and still be human 2. that God’s punishment is ever merely for punishment’s sake, and 3. that the word “eternal” should be understood as meaning exactly the same thing as the word “forever.”

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  20. 1. Humans are never static beings.

    We are not static beings in this life, meaning that we are not completely locked into one, constant trajectory; why would we be static beings once we die, meaning that we are utterly incapable of any change of course or of allowing even the faintest seed of love to be planted somewhere deep in ourselves after we die?

    2. God’s wrath and punishment are not for punishment’s sake alone.

    I would argue that God’s wrath and punishment in the biblical narrative is never for the sake of mere retribution. Many Christians would disagree with me on this, I think. But I would argue that in the same way that blessings are dispensed for our good, any punishments, trials, or rebukes from God are also for our good, to change us for the better, to get our attention, to open our eyes, to draw us to him, to end injustice, and so on. I would challenge anyone to give me an example where God’s punishment was purely for the sake of punishment. Why would it be impossible that hell might be the ultimate corrective, the ultimate opportunity for those who reject God to experience existence without even the common grace He provides in this life, a grace “that currently falls on the just and the unjust alike”? Punishment forever for the choices made during a “finite life” doesn’t make sense to me and doesn’t mesh with the manner in which God uses punishment in the rest of Scripture. I am willing to submit to even those aspects of Truth that don’t “make sense to me” but I am yet to be convinced that this is an aspect of Truth deserving such treatment. In the early church fathers you will find statements supporting the idea that God endlessly, continually, ceaselessly bombards hell because his desire that “all men be saved” cannot ultimately and forever be frustrated. St. Augustine acknowledged that many Christians believed this in his time and not in a condemnatory way. On this point, I would leave us with a comment by Martin Luther in a letter he wrote in 1522. In addressing the possibility that people could turn to God after death, he asked, “Who would doubt God’s ability to do that?”

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  21. 3. “Eternal” equal to “forever”?

    My last point deals with the word “eternal” itself. I realize that I’m going into the weeds on this one and admit that I have not done the necessary work to corroborate what I am about to write. Referring back to the Matthew 25 passage, let’s look at the phrase “eternal fire” where all of the people go who ignored the plight of the poor, oppressed, lonely, depressed, sick, and otherwise suffering in their midst (on another note, shouldn’t it have been the unbelievers instead of those who ignored the “least of these”?). According to the book “Love Wins” (just released), “the goats are sent, in the Greek language, to an ‘aion of kolazo’” (translated in the NIV as eternal fire). Aion has many meanings, one of which is “age” or “period of time” and another is “intensity of experience.” “The word ‘kolazo’ is a term from horticulture. It refers to the pruning and trimming of the branches of a plant so it can flourish.” Therefore an “aion of kolazo” (eternal fire) could mean an intense period of pruning or trimming for the eventual purpose of coming to a place of flourishing. Earlier in the book the author makes the case that neither the Greek nor the Hebrew languages had words for our word “forever,” meaning a linear unfolding of time consisting of consecutive events without end flowing from a particular starting point. So when we translate “aion” into “eternal” and then view “eternal” as precisely equal to “forever” we have added something to the Greek language that was not there when this passage was written. Go back and read the story in Matthew 25 again with the altered meaning of “eternal fire.” I fully admit that I WANT this explanation to be a more accurate way of understanding hell and am by no means a disinterested observer in this debate. So I offer it hesitantly and with some trembling because the last thing I want to be apart of is offering something that claims to be truly new, however, I’m not sure it is new.

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  22. Nathan,
    That article was great. I just now got to read it. I will use it as a reference in years to come. I totally agreed with your first and second critiques that "salvation" is inadequately defined and that there was a false presumption that the gospel is primarily about salvation from hell. I didn't understand where your third critique came from. Did Neuhaus somehow make the suggestion that the purpose of salvation is to get as many into heaven at the point of death?

    Respond when or if you get the chance. Again, thank you for posting this. (Loved that paragraph that you references where he pits the seemingly opposing passages against one another).

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  23. Brian,

    Thanks for your note. It’s good to hear from you, even if in this indirect forum. Actually, none of those critiques was specifically directed at Neuhaus and his article. They were general comments about what I have gleaned over the years as the “prevailing” viewpoints of Christians around me. I posted the article because I believe if we deal poorly with this issue of destinations, most everything else falls apart. For example, is the imperative to seek justice for victims of violence a means to another end, that end being to lend more credibility to our evangelistic projects or do such acts have intrinsic value in anticipation of the coming Kingdom? If we understand the gospel as many ardent exclusivists do, then in ultimate terms, what is the inherent value for International Justice Mission to build a network around the work to rescue victims of violence from their abusers? Most of these victims and their abusers are going to endure eternal torment anyway for not confessing the Lordship of Christ in their few decades of being alive? The weight of that prospect so understood really does eclipse everything else. The problem I’ve had for awhile is that Jesus had several opportunities to clearly answer questions about gaining life in heaven, but instead of answering them directly, he deconstructs, dodges, and then asks probing questions instead. To reiterate, I believe the more we get this wrong, the more we undercut our own participation in God’s movement in our world. Anyway, Neuhaus is by no means a radical, mystic, leftist, or a proponent of heterodoxy so I thought his insights were especially valuable. For this Lutheran-turned-Catholic, he felt it important to leave some things to mystery and to write that paragraph you referenced in your comments.

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  24. As to your specific question about Neuhaus suggesting that “the purpose of salvation is to get as many into heaven at the point of death,” no, he did not say that. What I think he did say was that the reason he will not take an affirmative position on hell being populated is because we can’t possibly know if, in the moment of any person’s death, that they did not repent and receive God’s forgiveness, because if they did, this forgiveness would certainly be all sufficient. Since the Catholic Catechism clearly states that the time for receiving grace from Christ is before a person’s death, this is how he must approach it. At an RCIA class last night I asked the priest instructing about praying for the departed, even for those who we are confident were not Catholics or not otherwise Christians. And he said that the Church strongly encourages prayers for God’s mercy for all the departed regardless of what we think their status was when they died. I would take it a step further, however, and ask for further refinement or elaboration based on several issues, but I’ll mention one. People are dynamic beings capable of changing course. We may not do it often, and we always need God’s grace, but we are never fully locked into a course of life with no chance to deviate. This is part of what it means to be human. To believe that we become static in our death with no chance to change course from the direction we were heading on our last breath is problematic if we believe we’re still human after we die. The Catholic Church and many Protestant teachings say that God condemns no one to hell but rather people choose it through a refusal to repent in the wake of their sin. I now struggle with the idea that image bearers of God could ever become fully static beings, fully unable to turn toward God after death even though his invitation stands endlessly. It seems to me we either have to eventually cease being human if its true that we become incapable of changing course after death or we have to hold the possibility that post-death repentance is possible. Obviously Neuhaus did not go in this direction as most Christians do not, but I think it’s a fair point to consider.

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